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WA Young's avatar

The church hasn’t replaced Israel.

The church IS Israel. God’s covenant people are Christians.

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Dr Bobbie Cook's avatar

Although I can agree with some of your statements, I was shocked by your tone which was dripping with arrogance and sarcasm. I am no longer a dispensationalist after reading the Bible through a dozen times with only the Holy Spirit’s guidance and I am saddened by your vitriolic diatribe against those who are brothers and sisters in Christ. In general, your writing has both encouraged and challenged me in my walk. However, this evidence of uncharitably rabid dispensationalism has made me seriously rethink my support of your ministry. At least now I am fully aware of your paradigm, so thank you for that.

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Michael Stefan's avatar

If you have a strong stomach, check out what Maimonides, one of the foremost Jewish theologians of the Middle Ages, said about Jesus Christ. Or read any of Michael Hoffman's exposees of the Talmud, which is what religious Judaism is actually based on, not the Pentateuch. Cheers. 🍻

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Philip Grundey's avatar

The church is Israel? That is a special kind of nonsense. Israel is a person in history and the nation that directly descended from him. You either haven't read the whole of the old testament or have failed to comprehend it. Either way, this level of ignorance means you have no business attempting to teach others theology.

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WA Young's avatar

You must have a well below average IQ. First, I’m not teaching anyone theology - just stating a Biblical fact. Second, what I said has always been the historical theological position of the Christian church up until the relatively recent inception of dispensationalism - which is heresy, I might add.

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Philip Grundey's avatar

Genesis 46:8 KJV

[8] And these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt, Jacob and his sons: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn.

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Philip Grundey's avatar

Romans 9:1-4 KJV

[1] I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, [2] that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. [3] For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

https://bible.com/bible/1/rom.9.1-4.KJV

Who are the Israelites?

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Philip Grundey's avatar

I don't know what Bible you are reading because Israel is hundreds of times used to refer to a specific nation and person as I assert and nowhere used to refer to the church as you falsely assert. You are stating a nonsensical falsehood. I am happy to provide a sample of the hundreds of Biblical references to support my case- as your view is a non- scriptural fabrication you will be unable to provide any scriptural evidence to support yours.

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WA Young's avatar

Your dispensational heresy is trash, and that’s where it belongs. I rarely even count those who blindly adhere to it as brethren anymore, because many like yourself are blind. When you stop reading scripture through the lens of your presuppositions, perhaps it will become more clear to you. State all the examples you want, fill your boots. I have 2000 years of church history on my side, and I’m sticking with that. You can keep your false doctrines.

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Philip Grundey's avatar

I just provided two direct quotes from scripture, the inspired and infallible Word of God that directly refute your falsehood. You clearly don't believe the Bible. I hold to Sola Scriptura. Given you appeal to something other than the Bible as your authority I have nothing further to add.

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WA Young's avatar

You hold to sola scripture? Utterly laughable. No, you do not. What you hold to is a recent development that had never before been a theological position of the Christian church, and claim its “Biblical”. What you do is eisegete scripture through the lens of your distorted false theology, and then claim the Bible your authority. No, it’s not. Your idol of dispensationalism is your authority. Christ is the head of the church, but you don’t even know what the church is…

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WA Young's avatar

Of course it is. Really, it’s no different than what you see on Sid Roth or TBN - grifters fleecing the sheep for personal gain. Or as scripture calls it, filthy lucre. Whenever you have someone claiming to have special insight that you don’t have, or that you need pay them for resources to “decode” the Bible - those are big red flags.

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Dustin (Busy 4 The Lord)'s avatar

Someone had to be blunt! 💯 Well said!

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Gbo's avatar

🔥 PREACH IT 'TIL THEIR EARS BLEED 🔥

"When you rip Israel out of God's plan, you don't just commit theological malpractice — you lay the groundwork for genocide. Your doctrine has Jewish blood on its hands, and you're too spiritually blind to see it."

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Lance Cashion's avatar

It appears Replacement Theology is being used a pejorative used against anyone who doesn't affirm dispensationalism.

In terms of historical theology, dispensationalism came on the scene 15 minutes ago (19th century).

The problem with the argument is that Replacement Theology is a category error when employed in such a manner.

Confessing orthodox Christians agree that Jesus will return (that is an essential doctrine). On non essential doctrines, we have charity.

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Biblical Man's avatar

"15 minutes ago"? Justin Martyr taught Israel's literal restoration in 165 AD.

Irenaeus named four dispensations by 200 AD.

Joachim of Fiore's three-age system predates Darby by 600 years.

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Michael Stefan's avatar

Since you brought up Saint Irenaeus, read Book V, Chapter 32 of Against Heresies. He says clearly there that Jesus Christ's Church inherits Abraham's promises, not necessarily his genetic descendants. If you read it and you still disagree with him, maybe it's best not to reference him in your case. 😏

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Jude Stradtner's avatar

The mention of Dispensations does not equal dispensationalism. Covenant Theologians have used that terminology forever.

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Henry Sevin's avatar

Where did you acquire this knowledge of the early church? Extra reading after your hauling runs and raising five kids while on public assistance? It’s quite remarkable. You argue like a seminarian.

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Faith&FitnessMama's avatar

Incorrect. According to Max Lucado’s well-researched new book, early Christians were also dispensationalists (though they did not necessarily use that word).

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Beata Donahue's avatar

You. Are a True Biblical Man!! I love to hear your word! I just wish I had the money to subscribe to you!!! You are truly awesome!!! God Bless You!!!!!

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Turner Newberg's avatar

I generally appreciate your no-nonsense posture, but it kind of ticked me off that the strength of your tone outweighed the strength of your exegesis. You chose pathos rather than interacting with legitimate counterarguments. Would you be willing to engage in serious discourse?

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Kyle Stump's avatar

Genesis 17:7-8 is great…I see the “everlasting”…I also see that the everlasting covenant is made to Abraham’s “seed”. Who is Abraham’s seed?

“And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not that the church replaced Israel…the covenant was always intended to the ones of “faith”. That’s where Romans 9:6-8 comes in. It’s fulfillment not replacement.

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Biblical Man's avatar

Galatians 3:29 makes you a spiritual heir, not the owner of Israel’s land deeds.

Paul says you’re grafted in (Rom 11), not swapped in.

God didn’t replace Israel,He expanded the family.

The “seed of faith” doesn’t cancel the promises to Abraham’s physical seed.

That’s not fulfillment. That’s theft.

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Kyle Stump's avatar

The word defines who the seed is…just as it says some branches have been removed. What’s cool is they can be grafted back in. I love ethnic Jews and am not a bigot. However I think many have let dispensationalism and what they’ve heard from their pastor form their opinion instead of letting scripture interpret scripture. 🤷🏻‍♂️ let’s not bend scripture to fit our doctrine that is only roughly 200 years old. Literally none of the early church fathers were dispensationlists and some of them were direct disciples of Christ’s disciples. I feel pretty sure they had a better view of scripture and doctrine than John Nelson Darby. That’s just my opinion. I appreciate your zeal and the majority of things you post…but I think you’re off on this one.

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Michael Stefan's avatar

While I'm glad you reject Dispensationalism Kyle, let me ask you a question based on usage of "let Scripture interpret Scripture": If two totally sincere truth-seeking people read the same Bible verse and each one insists that it means something different, in a way that can't be reconciled, what do we do then? They can't both be right, and maybe neither of them are.

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Kyle Stump's avatar

That’s a fair question. I should have worded it better. I was using it in the context of the word “seed” being used in the Genesis passage. We don’t get to define what “seed” meant in that passage based on our own opinions, the Bible tells us what the definition of the word is. That’s why I brought up the Romans passage. As for your question I think the answer is we wrestle with it ( like we are in the comment section here). We discuss it and study it. I’m still growing and learning but I constantly ask Holy Spirit to lead me and teach me as I read. I also consult people who are way more learned than me. Research the early church father’s writings on the text or doctrine.

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Michael Stefan's avatar

Aye. Researching the writings of the Church Fathers was the path I chose.

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sadie's avatar

What physical seed? They are not a race. Your vitriolic language is quite unbecoming.

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Henry Sevin's avatar

Funny that you mention a hypothetical genocide that might happen again to Jews, but have nothing to say about the actual genocide happening to Palestinians over the last 20 months at the hands of the IDF, which is supported by 80% of Jews both in and outside “Israel” according to surveys. Also, you really seem to have a stake (financial?) in the survival of this Rothschild colonial project, and you blast away with well-crafted Biblical and historical references. Kind of impressive for a “garbage hauler” from North Dakota with a torn shoulder. Are you sure you are not a Hasbara catfish? If you are who you present yourself to be, an actual working class American Bible-thumping Zionist, well, that is impressive. Still think you’re dead wrong. I don’t think God’s chosen are called to slaughter women and children. I think that’s cowardly and despicable, no matter how you dress it up.

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Pseudonymph's avatar

This

Methinks SAYANIM indeed

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Henry Sevin's avatar

Had to ChatGPT that…

Sayanim (singular: sayan) is a Hebrew term (סייענים) that translates roughly to “helpers” or “assistants.” It typically refers to Jews living outside of Israel who voluntarily assist the Mossad (Israel’s national intelligence agency) in various non-operational capacities.

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Pseudonymph's avatar

https://odysee.com/@wolverine151:2/S_A_Y_A_N_I_M:8

The ChatGPT is a pretty convincing bury the lede attempt.

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Henry Sevin's avatar

Very interesting thx 4 link

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Pseudonymph's avatar

https://odysee.com/@Relais-x:d/Sayanim:9

I speak French and don’t know of or see translations but if you’re fluent at all it is a much better testimony from the same horse’s mouth of the scale and impact of the saynim - who he both acknowledged them as 1) a fifth column and 2) often being a part of Bnai Brith Judeo-Masonic order (all are judeo-Masonic - Judaism for goyim Bnai is dinstinct in this sense that it is a Judeo-Masonic order exclusively for / actual “chosenites”/.

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Henry Sevin's avatar

I will watch and try to glean through osmosis, je parle un pue français 😝

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Pseudonymph's avatar

Chance que c’est Parisienne et non Québecois comme dialect! Ca me prend quelques moments avant que la rhythme staccato Parisienne est compréhensible tout a la place du “drunken Texan level drawl“ Quebecois on est obligé d’enduree … malheureusement!

Problèmes unique des Anglophones “à Québec” 😝

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Henry Sevin's avatar

je no comprende pas

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Michael Stefan's avatar

His wife, "Biblical Womanhood", mentioned in some post from last year that she has Jewish family members. Curious and curiouser.

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Corey Powell's avatar

I regret to inform you that what you eviscerated is, in fact, a straw-man. Many covenant theologians would agree with you on many of your points, including the literalness of promises, eternality of the covenant, and the restoration of the physical people of Israel (the natural branches, Rom 11:24).

What we reject is that there are two separate people of God. The church did not replace Israel, nor do they exist side by side as separate entities. Israel was "the chruch in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38). But gentiles were grafted into it (Rom 11:17). It is not gone. And Paul says that the land promise was not just about the middle east, but that Abraham was the heir of the whole world (Rom 4:13). Your problem is that you want it to be so "literal" that you actually keep the promise smaller than God meant for it to be.

I agree we should not be cursing the jews, but praying for their salvation. But to tell them they are special in a way they are not only increases their hardness toward the gospel. Covenant theology is not synonymous with jew hate, only some modern revisionists are making it so. And no, this did not in anyway cause the holocaust, that is an evil accusation to make.

But who does God say is Abrahams seed? Those who have faith, Gal 3:7 (and this was always the case, (Rom 9:6-7)).

Please be careful of your slanders towards brothers and sisters. I get that the rhetoric is kind of your thing, but be careful where you aim it and be sure you actually understand what you are attacking.

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Stephen White's avatar

Thanks for writing this Corey. While I tend to agree with Adam on most things, I share your concerns here. I hope he reads this and it gives him something to consider.

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Alex Linzi's avatar

If the country of Israel has Divine Providence, then why does it need military help from the US? All the ancient hebrews needed was God.

Also, since God will bless those that bless Israel, and we have been supporting them since the beginning, why has our society been steadily declining? Families are weaker, schools are crap, abortion, drugs, gambling, homosexuality, pedos, trannies, etc….

And to your point about Soviet Gulags… the majority (@75%) of Soviet secret police under Lenin and Stalin were Jewish and the they killed @10 million orthodox Christians before the start of WW2…

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Michael Stefan's avatar

I'm guessing Biblical Man thinks the Orthodox are "not REAL Christians" because "they worship Mary and the Saints and they have Icons". Typical.

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Henry Sevin's avatar

It’s very interesting how “Biblical Man” writes in the same aggressive, pedantic, and condescending style as “Voice of Zion”

🤔

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Bona Fide's avatar

Well, this article was written at least in part by ChatGPT, so there's that.

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Debra Mack's avatar

These people... Don't you think God is powerful enough to keep the Jews and know who is who!? There's going to be a literal 144,000 Jews from 12 tribes. That means there's a bunch of Jews right now!

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An0dyne's avatar

“And think not to say within yourselves, ‘We have Abraham to our father:’ for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.”

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.”

To reiterate, the promises that were made to Abraham were fulfilled in Christ, the Seed. That covenant is fulfilled as Christ has inherited the universe. The covenant made with Israel at Mount Sinai was voided by their unbelief. The sign of this rejection was the destruction of their universe (the earthly temple) in A.D. 70. St. Paul makes this all very clear in Hebrews. But he also makes clear that the earthly pattern was always meant to guide the Jews to the heavenly reality. And there the true Temple, which is Christ, reigns in the Jerusalem that is above, which shall last forever. The Jerusalem below is Hagar, a whore of Babylon and Antichrist. But there is hope still for the Jews if they turn to Christ and live. But not for “Judaism,” which is a blasphemy and affront to Christ.

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OneSecondAfter's avatar

This guy’s wrong from the start: he started with God’s promise to Abraham and his descendants.

The problem is that 80% of the population of “Israel as the Nation/State of the Jewish People” (official name since 2018) are Ashkenazi. Descended from Askenaz, grandson of Noah’s son Japheth. 80% of the Jews in Israel have roots in Europe. That means they are not Semitic (descended from Shem). And this includes Netanyahu who is of Polish descent.

Whereas Abraham was nine generations descended from Noah’s son Shem. Obviously, God’s promise in Genesis 17 is not for the Ashkenazi Jews inhabiting Israel because they’re not Abraham’s descendants.

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Jim Cross, CPA's avatar

I am sickened by the vitriol on both sides of the debate. Your trademark provocative statements are helpful when encouraging men to grow in thier faith, but this is not that.

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Bill Moody's avatar

God is not glorified in this. Your assumptions and tone and straight up slander of the body grieve Him.

Biblical masculinity is not arrogant and prideful. It is strong and kind and yes, full of love.

“The Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness.”

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